Posts by paul from cleveland

this is a complex question, and i just want to get a discussion started on the message of jehovah's witnesses and how it relates to their adventist roots, and esp calvinism.. bear with me, i will try to be concise.. we all know that while jehovah's witnesses like to deny adventist roots, that it is clear that according to them, the man jesus selected to get the whole thing started, c t russell, was heavily influenced by adventist ideas, esp the (adventist) idea that has really never left them; the idea that somehow, a time date or period can be inferred from the bible if you read certain scriptures through an adventist lens.

(thus, the 2520 years, 7 gentile times, etc.).

so while this is relatively well known, there is a concept that jehovah's witnesses teach against, yet practice.

paul from cleveland

Thanks for another great topic. It's amazing to see how these ideas don't just come out of thin air. They all have roots somewhere. I would have never thought that learning about Calvinism would answer this vague, unformed question I've carried with me for so long.

69

Jehovah's Witnesses and Calvinistic Predestination

by AllTimeJeff in

this is a complex question, and i just want to get a discussion started on the message of jehovah's witnesses and how it relates to their adventist roots, and esp calvinism.. bear with me, i will try to be concise.. we all know that while jehovah's witnesses like to deny adventist roots, that it is clear that according to them, the man jesus selected to get the whole thing started, c t russell, was heavily influenced by adventist ideas, esp the (adventist) idea that has really never left them; the idea that somehow, a time date or period can be inferred from the bible if you read certain scriptures through an adventist lens.

(thus, the 2520 years, 7 gentile times, etc.).

so while this is relatively well known, there is a concept that jehovah's witnesses teach against, yet practice.

paul from cleveland

This is the issue I was trying to get at when I posted Is this our fate?

69

Jehovah's Witnesses and Calvinistic Predestination

by AllTimeJeff in

this is a complex question, and i just want to get a discussion started on the message of jehovah's witnesses and how it relates to their adventist roots, and esp calvinism.. bear with me, i will try to be concise.. we all know that while jehovah's witnesses like to deny adventist roots, that it is clear that according to them, the man jesus selected to get the whole thing started, c t russell, was heavily influenced by adventist ideas, esp the (adventist) idea that has really never left them; the idea that somehow, a time date or period can be inferred from the bible if you read certain scriptures through an adventist lens.

(thus, the 2520 years, 7 gentile times, etc.).

so while this is relatively well known, there is a concept that jehovah's witnesses teach against, yet practice.

paul from cleveland

I had never realized that the questions I had were based on Calvinist ideas that were carried over to the Witnesses. It makes so much sense the way you've explained it. That's always been one of my biggest issues but I've never been able to verbalize it properly.

69

Jehovah's Witnesses and Calvinistic Predestination

by AllTimeJeff in

this is a complex question, and i just want to get a discussion started on the message of jehovah's witnesses and how it relates to their adventist roots, and esp calvinism.. bear with me, i will try to be concise.. we all know that while jehovah's witnesses like to deny adventist roots, that it is clear that according to them, the man jesus selected to get the whole thing started, c t russell, was heavily influenced by adventist ideas, esp the (adventist) idea that has really never left them; the idea that somehow, a time date or period can be inferred from the bible if you read certain scriptures through an adventist lens.

(thus, the 2520 years, 7 gentile times, etc.).

so while this is relatively well known, there is a concept that jehovah's witnesses teach against, yet practice.

paul from cleveland

This is the exact question I've had my entire life. I remember an elder telling me, while we were out in service one day, that we were looking for people with 'good hearts'. I asked 'what if someone doesn't have a good heart, but they want to have one?' (referring to myself) He just shrugged his shoulders indicating that he didn't know. I've never thought I had a good heart but was a Witness by "accident" because of birth. I was sure that Jehovah would eventually root me out. (which is what happened)

6

Another question for Christians: 'No one comes to the father except through me'

by paul from cleveland in

often times the scripture 'no one comes to the father except through me' is used as proof that we shouldn't recognize an earthly governing body.

how does that scripture prove that a governing body isn't just part of the 'chain of command' leading to the father?

it doesn't seem to necessarily preclude the possiblility of an earthly governing body by itself..

paul from cleveland

thank you all for your comments.

6

Another question for Christians: 'No one comes to the father except through me'

by paul from cleveland in

often times the scripture 'no one comes to the father except through me' is used as proof that we shouldn't recognize an earthly governing body.

how does that scripture prove that a governing body isn't just part of the 'chain of command' leading to the father?

it doesn't seem to necessarily preclude the possiblility of an earthly governing body by itself..

paul from cleveland

Often times the scripture 'no one comes to the Father except through me' is used as proof that we shouldn't recognize an earthly governing body. How does that scripture prove that a governing body isn't just part of the 'chain of command' leading to the father? It doesn't seem to necessarily preclude the possiblility of an earthly governing body by itself.

7

What's the difference between "Watch Tower" of PA and "Watchtower" NY?

by paul from cleveland in

what is the reason for being incorporated in two states and why is the pa corp. two words (watch tower) and the ny corp. one word (watchtower)?

thanks.

paul from cleveland

Thanks Jeff